Posts by Lady Liberty

39

Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 in

so after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.

" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.

he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?

Lady Liberty

Dear Jah1914,

Here are a few scriptures that may help you as well:

2 Tim. 1:7

7

For God gave us not a spirit of cowardice, but that of power and of love and of soundness of mind.

Acts 17:11

10

Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas out to Be·roe´a, and these, upon arriving, went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni´ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.

John 4: 23

23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.

Matt. 15:9

9

It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’"

John 8:32

32 and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free."

Matt. 7:7

7 "Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to YOU.

All these scriptures show that its ok to ask, question and examine your faith in God's eyes, because he is looking for those who truth matters to them.

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

39

Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 in

so after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.

" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.

he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?

Lady Liberty

And to top it all off it is all done and said by the name of God. Does the student who is leading the class say he has all the answers because he is teaching the class being guided by God's Holy Spirit? No. Bad example from your conductor. Misleading a classs cannot compare to a group of self appointed men claiming Holy Spirit misleading 6 million people, at the cost of their very lives. And to top it all off, it is left that way for years!

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Lady Liberty

Dear Deconbluez,

Good question. Here is a post I did on this some time ago. I hope it helps answer your question.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/111283/1.ashx

Hi everyone,

I just made this chart for my brother-in-law using the Bible as well as the book entitled Assyrian & Babylonian Chronicles by A.K. Grayson printed in 1975. Grayson is a world renound expert used to decipher the Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles for the British Museum. I checked out this book from the local library. Although they had to send away to a College University for it. A interesting note: the Society uses this very book in the Insight Vol.2 under Nebuchadnezzar to support their dates. When I got this book, it was for the purpose of checking their dates and quotes of this author. As you will see by this chart, they have misquoted him to serve their own deceitful purpose! I included scriptures that support the chronicles. Like I said, I made this for my brother-in-law, but thought someone out there might be able to use it.

Have a great night!

Lady Liberty

The Seventy Years: 609 to 539 BCE

609- Nabopolassars 17 th reignal year. Babylon was dominating all surrounding nations. See Jer. 25:11, 25:17- 26. 27:6-8, 12-13(All the nations will have to SERVE the king of Babylon seventy years.) The 70 years begin. ( Babylonian Chronicle 3- BM 21901)

607- Nabopolassars 19 th reignal year. Nebuchadnessar was not even in power yet! He was only a crowned prince at this time. (Babylonian Chronicle 4 –BM 22047)

605- Nabopolassars 21 st reignal year. Battle of Carchemish , between Egypt and Babylon. Nabopolassar dies and Nebuchadnezar accends the thrown. This is year 0 for Nebuchadnezzars reign. Daniel finds himself exiled to Babylon, as well as the Royal offspring of Jerusalem, the utensils of the house of Jehovah were carried to Babylon. See Daniel 1- 2:1. Jer. 29:1,20 (Babylonian Chronicle 5- BM 21946)

603- Nebuchadnezzars second reignal year. See. Dan. 2:1

586/587- Jerusalem burned. Nebuchadnessars ninteenth reignal year. See Jer. 52:12-16 (There were still lowly ones left remaining in the city.)

562-End of Nebuchadnezzars reign.

557-Neriglissars third reignal year. ( Chronicle 6 –BM 25124)

556- Nabonidus becomes King. (Nabonidus Chronicle 7- BM35382)

539- 70 are fullfilled. Nabonidus is King of Babylon at this time. Cyrus overtakes Babylon in one night. Handwriting on the wall. Jews released from servitude. See- Dan. 5:25-26 Jer. 25: 12 ( Nabonidus Chronicle: Chronicle 7-BM 36304)

39

Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 in

so after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.

" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.

he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?

Lady Liberty

Here is the thread I reffered you to above:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/145265/1.ashx

Hello all, Happy Sunday to you!!

Just read Quandrys post about the 2007 Annual meeting notes. This comment made during that meeting just got under my skin, so I decided to start a thread to show the dictionarys definition of both of the words. Dictionary makes it clear they are one and the same! See my post to Quandrys thread:

Dear Quandry,

Thank you for posting this! I found this statement to make not one bit of sence! "We of the Governing body have not always had the right understanding. The Gov. Body is not inspired and neither are the publications. It is the Holy Spirit that helps us to find the correct understanding".See what the dictionary has to say regarding "inspired" v.s. "spirit directed". They are just trying to cover all bases even if they make no sence it won't matter because their followers have given up their brains at the door years ago!

Dictionary "Inspired": Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This

in·spire alt / ?n'spa? ? r / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [ in-spahy uh r ] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -spired, -spir·ing. –verb (used with object)

1.	to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence: His courage inspired his followers.

2.	to produce or arouse (a feeling, thought, etc.): to inspire confidence in others.

3.	to fill or affect with a specified feeling, thought, etc.: to inspire a person with distrust.

4.	to influence or impel: Competition inspired her to greater efforts.

5.	to animate, as an influence, feeling, thought, or the like, does: They were inspired by a belief in a better future.

6.	to communicate or suggest by a divine or supernatural influence: writings inspired by God.

7.	to guide or control by divine influence.

8.	to prompt or instigate (utterances, acts, etc.) by influence, without avowal of responsibility.

9.	to give rise to, bring about, cause, etc.: a philosophy that inspired a revolution.

10.	to take (air, gases, etc.) into the lungs in breathing; inhale.

11.

Archaic .

a.	to infuse (breath, life, etc.) by breathing (usually fol. by into).

b.	to breathe into or upon.

–verb (used without object)

12.	to give inspiration.

13.	to inhale.

"Spirit Directed" Spirit = Holy Spirit Dictionary" Directed" Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This di·rect·ed

/ d?'r?k

t?d, da?- / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [ di-rek-tid, dahy- ] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective

1.	guided, regulated, or managed: a carefully directed program.

2.	subject to direction, guidance, regulation, etc.

3.	Mathematics . (of an angle or vector) having positive or negative direction or orientation assigned

Hmmmm!!! Seems like maybe they need to get a good copy of the dictionary because being inspied means the exact thing as being directed!!!!!! Sincerely, Lady Liberty

39

Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 in

so after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.

" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.

he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?

Lady Liberty

Dear Jah1914,

First of all, WELCOME to the forum!!! "The light gets brighter" excuse for change is one of the most frusterating things to try to reason with a JW about. The way I have explained it is like this:

The light gets brighter reasoning will work if the line of thinking never changes from wrong to right. True your understanding of a stand or a teaching can get brighter, say they thought something was ok, but Holy Spirit helped them see that it was wrong, and then from then on it would always be wrong. But to change in the opposite direction and go from a wrong to a right it cannot.

Lets take the blood isssue for example. For years, the policy was to "pour out the blood" right? You couldn't even use products for your garden that were made from stored animal blood..such as deer repellant. No blood transfusions, no storing blood what so ever. So that was the "then " light as we knew it to be. Then years later the organization changed the policy on blood to allow for the use of fractions to be a conscience matter. So in all reality, the "blood is to be poured out" thinking changed to be a "it's ok to use fractions that are taken and derived from "stored blood". They claim the light got brighter. However that line of reasoning does not reason out.

Think about it. If they were truely being guided by the Holy Spirit as they claim they are, then the initial stand would never change to go in the opposite direction. The Bible says God does not change. Therefore something truely wrong in God's eyes now, will be wrong in his eyes a billion years from now. We may not understand all the reasons why it is wrong, but in time the Light would get brighter as our understanding grew, and more light was shed as to why it was STILL wrong. If it was from Jehovah and the Holy Spirit was guiding them to begin with, then it would and could never ever change from being a "wrong" to a "right".

Think about how many ones who were told years ago that taking a organ transplant was a disfellowshipping act, and punishable by disfellowshipping because it was considered canabalism. How many refrained from having such needed transplants, and died because of being loyal to what they believed was direction from Jehovah on such a policy. How many lost their mate, their child their father or mother, brother or sister or friend?? Only to have years later a policy change to being a conscience matter? Was Holy Spirit guiding them or not? If so how could a wrong turn into a right?

Either the Holy Spirit gets things wrong, such as the two examples I spoke of, or the Governing Body keeps getting it wrong. If they keep getting it wrong, then are they really being lead by Holy Spirit?? I think the answer is obvious. One other point..

The Governing Body always says, especially when they change a policy..that we are not inspired, but directed by Holy Spirit. So we are going to make mistakes because we are imperfect..that is why the light gets brighter. This was taken from a recent thread..see how the dictionary shows that inspired and spirit directed both mean the same thing...to be guided. So for them to say they are not inspired, but spirit directed is "double speak."

They want total obediance as if they were guided by God himself, yet when it comes to making mistakes, they claim they are led by the Holy Spirit, but make mistakes because they are imperfect. The problem is that the teachings that they claim are from God himself through his Holy Spirit, are taught for years and years. Does it really make sence that Jesus would direct his "slave" in the wrong direction, and allow them to teach his sheep the wrong thing for 10, 20 30 40,etc..years?? Would Jesus allow his "slave" to teach them and inforce them by means of disfellowshipping, even at the expence of those who would die to remain faithful to a later changing policy?

Here is the thread you may find it very helpful. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/145265/1.ashx

My dear Grandfather died because of the blood issue. A policy that has changed and will likely change again. How many others must die before it too becomes a conscience matter.

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

P.S. Please keep us posted as to how it goes next meeting.

5

Lurkers, Have no fear! See WT encoraging you to examine your religion!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

examining the faith that you have held so dear and have had all your life can be a scarey thing.

especially when the very religion you have trusted discourages you to examine their credentials.

Lady Liberty

Dear Friends,

Examining the faith that you have held so dear and have had all your life can be a scarey thing. Especially when the very religion you have trusted discourages you to examine their credentials. However, have no fear, even the Awake encourages ones to make an examination of their faith! Surely this would mean YOU too!!

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

Awake 1970 pg. 27:

"Your

WordIsTruth"

Is

YourstheRightReligion?

JESUS CHRIST showed that not all persons practice the right religion, the one that leads to life. In fact, he explained that the majority of mankind would be misled into taking the broad road that leads to destruction. So he warned: "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves." (Matt. 7:13-15) The apostle Paul, too, revealed that false religious leaders would mislead many.—2 Cor. 11:14, 15.

Are you sure that your religion truly has God’s approval? It is possible to make sure. Yes, you can determine for certain whether your religion is the right one. This can be done by examining whether its teachings and practices are in accord with God’s Word, which Jesus said is the truth. (John 17:17) It is a relatively easy examination to make. And if you should find in making it that your religion’s teachings and practices are not in keeping with the Bible, then it is not the right religion.

Are you willing to put your religion through such a test? There is nothing to fear, because if you have the right religion you can only be reassured by the examination. And if what you believe is not in keeping with the Bible, then you should welcome the truth, because it leads to eternal life.—John 17:3.

82

January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

by t33ap80c in

jw
friends

the one mistake we all made.

and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

Lady Liberty

How many times did we tell this to others in the ministry?? You could ask this of others, but the society doesn't want you to ask this of yourself!!

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

Here is what the AWAKE 1970 4/8 pg. 27 article says:

"Your

WordIsTruth"

Is

YourstheRightReligion?

JESUS CHRIST showed that not all persons practice the right religion, the one that leads to life. In fact, he explained that the majority of mankind would be misled into taking the broad road that leads to destruction. So he warned: "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves." (Matt. 7:13-15) The apostle Paul, too, revealed that false religious leaders would mislead many.—2 Cor. 11:14, 15.

Are you sure that your religion truly has God’s approval? It is possible to make sure. Yes, you can determine for certain whether your religion is the right one. This can be done by examining whether its teachings and practices are in accord with God’s Word, which Jesus said is the truth. (John 17:17) It is a relatively easy examination to make. And if you should find in making it that your religion’s teachings and practices are not in keeping with the Bible, then it is not the right religion.

Are you willing to put your religion through such a test? There is nothing to fear, because if you have the right religion you can only be reassured by the examination. And if what you believe is not in keeping with the Bible, then you should welcome the truth, because it leads to eternal life.—John 17:3.

82

January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

by t33ap80c in

jw
friends

the one mistake we all made.

and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

Lady Liberty

Dear Don,

Thank you for posting this from the Watchtower. I totally agree with you. I think the reason the society is making comments like this in their magazines, is to ease the minds of those who are starting to question, and or who have talked with others who have actually examined what the society was teaching during the supposed time of Jesus inspection.

If they make comments like the one in the Watchtower you quoted, then any who may be starting to "think, and wonder" will hopefully be pacified by this sort of statement. It is kind of like saying, "no need to run for your brains....no need to doubt, wonder or think for yourself, let us do that for you...The faithful and discreet slave WAS providing food at the proper time. Remember questioning us is like questioning God! So relax, no need to worry...keep your brains at the door please."..

They forget about doubting Thomas...he wasn't shunned or excommunicated by Jesus for having doubts. Rather Jesus proved his words to him..unlike the organization who says these words are true because of who they say they are.. you cannot examine their credentials to prove they are who they say.

Thanks to ones like yourself who wrote "Captives of a Concept", and Franz who wrote Crisis of Conscience you are helping ones make that examination that the society doesn't anyone to make. So.. THANK YOU!!!!!

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

15